Operating Costs

[Carde]

Some balancing surely has to be done and yes newer planes should be cheaper to operate than old ones, this is offset by a higher purchase price. Of course we still need to make them viable in their own ways.

[Stebah]

Not coming across as a dick at all lol, I'm open to change. The formula is simple to change. I just want to make sure it's positive change. I'll do some math and see what else I can come up with.

Should the production year have an effect on operating cost as well? As time goes on engineering and manufacturing processes improve and aircraft continue to get more efficient. I mean the 787-8 in theory should be more cost-effective than the 767-300, but with this current formula they are essentially the same to operate (assuming same number of cycles).

Production year certainly has it's effects. The last Boeing 747-8I for Lufthansa for example has a 1% lower operating cost due to several improvements made to later planes. The Boeing 787-8 while more expansive to buy/lease has a 19% fuel reduction, but due to new technologies, different maintenance regime etc the direct operating costs should be several percent lower, this includes the higher monthly cost of leasing etc. If I remember correctly All Nippon Airways claimed the operating costs on the Boeing 787-8 was around 9% lower. 

That is also something that could be accounted for. A paid of Boeing 767 has lower operating costs as you don't have to account for the monthly lease cost or paying for the frame itself (if bought). Not sure how that could be added in formula, but that's how the real world works . Putting this in a formula is really difficult as you have a lot of things to account for. 

I sadly don't have acces to all the details anymore, but I will try and dig some useful stuff up.

[gaff85]

http://www.planestats.com/bhsw_2014mar

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even better

http://www.freightmetrics.com.au/Air/Air...fault.aspx

[gaff85]

The day rates seem to be extremely steep, example of a delta A330 below per flt hour

Aircraft  Carrier  Crew Fuel   AC Cost Mx Insur. Other Total
A330-300    Delta          $1,318  $5,866  $596           $991 $14         $11       $8,796

which would give est a cost on an 8 hour flight 70, 368, we are being charged 28160*8 225,280 plus fuel plus staff


I wouldn't mind drafting a table that could be used as a realistic basis

[Stebah]

The day rates seem to be extremely steep, example of a delta A330 below per flt hour

Aircraft  Carrier  Crew Fuel   AC Cost Mx Insur. Other Total
A330-300    Delta          $1,318  $5,866  $596           $991 $14         $11       $8,796

which would give est a cost on an 8 hour flight 70, 368, we are being charged 28160*8 225,280 plus fuel plus staff


I wouldn't mind drafting a table that could be used as a realistic basis

Planestats uses themselves as a source without any background information so I'm not sure if I'd thrust those numbers. Don't forget there are also variables in those data. The fuel cost is different per plane, per route, per day. Crew costs also depends on the lay-out of your plane, even with the same lay-out some airlines use more cabin crew. 

That's why you can't just make a formula for something like this. You would have to compare the costs per plane with a bunch of airlines to get an average. Most of the data won't be availlable to the general public, but as it is now the costs are way to high. 

I can look into some of the planes but a basic formula is just not possible without having all the data.

[gaff85]

The day rates seem to be extremely steep, example of a delta A330 below per flt hour

Aircraft  Carrier  Crew Fuel   AC Cost Mx Insur. Other Total
A330-300    Delta          $1,318  $5,866  $596           $991 $14         $11       $8,796

which would give est a cost on an 8 hour flight 70, 368, we are being charged 28160*8 225,280 plus fuel plus staff


I wouldn't mind drafting a table that could be used as a realistic basis

Planestats uses themselves as a source without any background information so I'm not sure if I'd thrust those numbers. Don't forget there are also variables in those data. The fuel cost is different per plane, per route, per day. Crew costs also depends on the lay-out of your plane, even with the same lay-out some airlines use more cabin crew. 

That's why you can't just make a formula for something like this. You would have to compare the costs per plane with a bunch of airlines to get an average. Most of the data won't be availlable to the general public, but as it is now the costs are way to high. 

I can look into some of the planes but a basic formula is just not possible without having all the data.

Agree, that why I had est beside them, as they would be more realistic than what the formula is producing today, I have route that are only producing 12.00 profit, on a Dublin to Vienna route, most of my routes now are uneconomical, even though they are flown daily by major carriers

[Unknown98]

What do you guys think about this formula?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing

You'll have to download it if you want to edit. If this was implemented you would be able to see the break-down of the operating cost for each flight, i.e. how much was taxes, maintenance, insurance etc. Would probably add those categories to the income statement as well.

[Stebah]

What do you guys think about this formula?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing

You'll have to download it if you want to edit. If this was implemented you would be able to see the break-down of the operating cost for each flight, i.e. how much was taxes, maintenance, insurance etc. Would probably add those categories to the income statement as well.

Well I gotta say that I like it so far. The operating costs for the jumbo's have dropped and that's good, although they are a little lower then I think they should be. The 747-400, 747-8 and A380 should be somewhere between 22 and 29K USD per hour if I believe the sources I could find so far. The A320 and B738 are however still to high. Shouldn't be above 3000 USD per hour. When I get some more free time later this week I'll see what I can do.

But I gotta say, you are doing a great job Unk!!

[gaff85]

What do you guys think about this formula?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing

You'll have to download it if you want to edit. If this was implemented you would be able to see the break-down of the operating cost for each flight, i.e. how much was taxes, maintenance, insurance etc. Would probably add those categories to the income statement as well.

1- Would inter EU flights be classed as "International" as there is no higher taxes currently
2 - IFE/IFS is this charged per flight or once off installation
3 - Basically the PAX costs should be added to the ticket price to garner a decent profit

[Unknown98]

Well it kind of changed from a strictly per hour cost to more of a per-flight cost, most of those costs (barring IFE/S) do not change based on flight time or distance. Therefore shorter flights are skewed towards being more expensive as things like Taxes, maintenance, insurance are fairly static.

And I think the 22-29K per hour figure I've seen in various places includes costs like crew salary, gate usage, landing fees etc which is all already accounted for separately.

Also going off some discussions we had in chat, I want to make a slight change to how the IFE/S cost would be calculated. Currently it is a linear scale based on distance. That will change to be based off flight time instead. Also want to incorporate tiers, i.e. <6 hours, 6-10 hrs and >10 hours. Each tier would jump on cost due to the additional meal. Thanks to sw889432 for that idea. This would also reduce IFE/S costs, for example the $200 per pax figure is too high as it stands.